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	<title>Comments for ILP</title>
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		<title>Comment on Turbulent Times and the Politics of Interdependence by New northern think tank will fight for more regional power &#124; TubeShaker</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/11/28/turbulent-times-and-the-politics-of-interdependence/comment-page-1/#comment-1989</link>
		<dc:creator>New northern think tank will fight for more regional power &#124; TubeShaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2291#comment-1989</guid>
		<description>[...] foundation&#8217;s first chair is Barry Winter, a retired politics lecturer from Leeds, and he makes the initial focus of campaigning clear:  A [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] foundation&#8217;s first chair is Barry Winter, a retired politics lecturer from Leeds, and he makes the initial focus of campaigning clear:  A [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Turbulent Times and the Politics of Interdependence by LED Lighting News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; New northern think tank will fight for more regional power</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/11/28/turbulent-times-and-the-politics-of-interdependence/comment-page-1/#comment-1986</link>
		<dc:creator>LED Lighting News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; New northern think tank will fight for more regional power</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 07:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2291#comment-1986</guid>
		<description>[...] foundation&#8217;s first chair is Barry Winter, a retired politics lecturer from Leeds, and he makes the initial focus of campaigning clear:  A [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] foundation&#8217;s first chair is Barry Winter, a retired politics lecturer from Leeds, and he makes the initial focus of campaigning clear:  A [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism by ILP History 3: Labour&#8217;s Rise and Disaffiliation - ILP</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/11/18/ilp-history-2-ethical-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-1975</link>
		<dc:creator>ILP History 3: Labour&#8217;s Rise and Disaffiliation - ILP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2207#comment-1975</guid>
		<description>[...] ILP: Past &amp; Present here, including: ILP History 1: The Early Years - Great Expectations - Beginnings in Bradford ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism - Independent Women - Living for that Better Day - Strongholds of the ILP  Tags: ILP history, The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ILP: Past &amp; Present here, including: ILP History 1: The Early Years - Great Expectations - Beginnings in Bradford ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism &#8211; Independent Women - Living for that Better Day - Strongholds of the ILP  Tags: ILP history, The [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on ILP History: Great Expectations by ILP History 3: Labour&#8217;s Rise and Disaffiliation - ILP</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/11/01/great-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-1974</link>
		<dc:creator>ILP History 3: Labour&#8217;s Rise and Disaffiliation - ILP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2059#comment-1974</guid>
		<description>[...] other extracts from The ILP: Past &amp; Present here, including: ILP History 1: The Early Years - Great Expectations - Beginnings in Bradford ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism - Independent Women - Living for that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] other extracts from The ILP: Past &amp; Present here, including: ILP History 1: The Early Years - Great Expectations - Beginnings in Bradford ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism &#8211; Independent Women - Living for that [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The public sector strikes back by Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/12/02/the-public-sector-strikes-back/comment-page-1/#comment-1970</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2012 16:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2350#comment-1970</guid>
		<description>Michael, I accept much of what you say in defence of public sector pensions. I too am a public sector employee and went on strike on 30 November. However, as far as I am aware, they are funded out of taxation, not investments, wherein lies the problem of their long term sustainability.

Also, ask youself this: how many careworkers or cleaners are now employed directly by local authorities? The answer is: less and less. The majority of public sector workers are part of the &#039;squeezed middle&#039; and are not on low pay.

I agree with you that trade unions must, by their nature, &#039;start where people are&#039; (meaning, their member, I suppose). However, their members - overwhelmingly now in the public sector - constitute only 20% of the workforce; the other 80% remain on the whole  (at best) ambivalent about pension rights in the public sector.

That is why socialist organisations need to take a wider view and develop a realistic policy/ campaign which unites as many people as possible in defence of fair and decent pensions for all. 

Did we learn nothing from the 1980s? Broadening the resistance is the only hope for retaining good pensions in the public sector.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I accept much of what you say in defence of public sector pensions. I too am a public sector employee and went on strike on 30 November. However, as far as I am aware, they are funded out of taxation, not investments, wherein lies the problem of their long term sustainability.</p>
<p>Also, ask youself this: how many careworkers or cleaners are now employed directly by local authorities? The answer is: less and less. The majority of public sector workers are part of the &#8217;squeezed middle&#8217; and are not on low pay.</p>
<p>I agree with you that trade unions must, by their nature, &#8217;start where people are&#8217; (meaning, their member, I suppose). However, their members &#8211; overwhelmingly now in the public sector &#8211; constitute only 20% of the workforce; the other 80% remain on the whole  (at best) ambivalent about pension rights in the public sector.</p>
<p>That is why socialist organisations need to take a wider view and develop a realistic policy/ campaign which unites as many people as possible in defence of fair and decent pensions for all. </p>
<p>Did we learn nothing from the 1980s? Broadening the resistance is the only hope for retaining good pensions in the public sector.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The public sector strikes back by Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/12/02/the-public-sector-strikes-back/comment-page-1/#comment-1960</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 21:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2350#comment-1960</guid>
		<description>As a person who works within local government I&#039;m not going to agree completely with what Jonathan has stated. Not all public sector workers are well paid. Try telling that to some-one who works as a part-time cleaner or care worker in a care home or in a school. If the figures that were published in the Independent at the time the one day strike took place are accurate, then the average pay in the public sector is not that significantly better than that in the private sector - otherwise there would not be the need for the so called market supplements that the job evaluation process that occurred when single status was introduced about 10 years ago were supposed to get rid of. Nor is there a great deal of difference if you compare what is paid by a private sector pension with that of a public sector pension - the big difference is that most public sector pensions are final salary schemes (again this is assuming the figures quoted in the Independent are ok). It&#039;s all down to the use of which average you use. The major area where the public sector jobs are &quot;better&quot; than most private sector jobs is when it comes to terms and conditions. 

Yes, it would be nice to broaden peoples &quot;sectional interests&quot;, but we have to start where people are. I think it&#039;s worthwhile to point out that a reason why the Tories are out to change public sector pensions is to make then unaffordable for most people who work in the public sector. Therefore, most people will opt out and so make the pension funds more unsustainable. If you look at most public sector schemes whilst there is an employer contribution, payments also come from employees salaries. Funds are then invested in various areas such as the stock market. If your pension contributions are to rise and your pay has been frozen for yet another year (ie. you have had a pay cut in real terms) then in order to pay for your rent or mortgage, etc, you will think about cutting back on &quot;non-essentials&quot; which for some can include dropping out of the pension scheme. Most public-sector pension schemes are relatively responsive to members&#039; control, as a proportion of the pension trustees are appointed from the trade unions, which for all there faults do have a measure of member control. You don&#039;t have that with private pensions. With many private schemes up to 25% of your contributions are taken as administration fees, ie. profit for the pension providers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a person who works within local government I&#8217;m not going to agree completely with what Jonathan has stated. Not all public sector workers are well paid. Try telling that to some-one who works as a part-time cleaner or care worker in a care home or in a school. If the figures that were published in the Independent at the time the one day strike took place are accurate, then the average pay in the public sector is not that significantly better than that in the private sector &#8211; otherwise there would not be the need for the so called market supplements that the job evaluation process that occurred when single status was introduced about 10 years ago were supposed to get rid of. Nor is there a great deal of difference if you compare what is paid by a private sector pension with that of a public sector pension &#8211; the big difference is that most public sector pensions are final salary schemes (again this is assuming the figures quoted in the Independent are ok). It&#8217;s all down to the use of which average you use. The major area where the public sector jobs are &#8220;better&#8221; than most private sector jobs is when it comes to terms and conditions. </p>
<p>Yes, it would be nice to broaden peoples &#8220;sectional interests&#8221;, but we have to start where people are. I think it&#8217;s worthwhile to point out that a reason why the Tories are out to change public sector pensions is to make then unaffordable for most people who work in the public sector. Therefore, most people will opt out and so make the pension funds more unsustainable. If you look at most public sector schemes whilst there is an employer contribution, payments also come from employees salaries. Funds are then invested in various areas such as the stock market. If your pension contributions are to rise and your pay has been frozen for yet another year (ie. you have had a pay cut in real terms) then in order to pay for your rent or mortgage, etc, you will think about cutting back on &#8220;non-essentials&#8221; which for some can include dropping out of the pension scheme. Most public-sector pension schemes are relatively responsive to members&#8217; control, as a proportion of the pension trustees are appointed from the trade unions, which for all there faults do have a measure of member control. You don&#8217;t have that with private pensions. With many private schemes up to 25% of your contributions are taken as administration fees, ie. profit for the pension providers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on ILP History 1: The Early Years by ILP History 3: Labour&#8217;s Rise and Disaffiliation - ILP</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/11/04/ilp-history-the-early-years/comment-page-1/#comment-1959</link>
		<dc:creator>ILP History 3: Labour&#8217;s Rise and Disaffiliation - ILP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2022#comment-1959</guid>
		<description>[...] other extracts from The ILP: Past &amp; Present here, including: ILP History 1: The Early Years - Great Expectations - Beginnings in Bradford ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism - Independent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] other extracts from The ILP: Past &amp; Present here, including: ILP History 1: The Early Years - Great Expectations - Beginnings in Bradford ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism &#8211; Independent [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on ILP History 1: The Early Years by Strongholds of the ILP - ILP</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/11/04/ilp-history-the-early-years/comment-page-1/#comment-1958</link>
		<dc:creator>Strongholds of the ILP - ILP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2022#comment-1958</guid>
		<description>[...] other extracts from The ILP: Past &amp; Present here, including:ILP History 1: The Early Years- Great Expectations- Beginnings in Bradford ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism- Independent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] other extracts from The ILP: Past &amp; Present here, including:ILP History 1: The Early Years- Great Expectations- Beginnings in Bradford ILP History 2: Ethical Socialism- Independent [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The public sector strikes back by Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/2011/12/02/the-public-sector-strikes-back/comment-page-1/#comment-1924</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 22:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?p=2350#comment-1924</guid>
		<description>Yes, this is ok but it doesn&#039;t address the fundamental question as to why the public is skeptical about the strike.

Not all public sector workers are on poor pay (in fact many of them are well renumerated) and the unions only seem to see things in terms of protecting existing conditions, not restoring fairness to the pensions system as a whole.

It is also valid to question public sector pension schemes which are paid out of general taxation rather than members&#039; contributions and fund investments.

I tend to think that the role of the ILP is to challenge the Left to confront difficult issues - so that it can be more radical and effective -  rather than to go along with the crowd. Perhaps inevitably the unions will pursue narrow sectional interests, but socialists should be broadening their horizons and calling for sweeping reforms to the whole pensions system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, this is ok but it doesn&#8217;t address the fundamental question as to why the public is skeptical about the strike.</p>
<p>Not all public sector workers are on poor pay (in fact many of them are well renumerated) and the unions only seem to see things in terms of protecting existing conditions, not restoring fairness to the pensions system as a whole.</p>
<p>It is also valid to question public sector pension schemes which are paid out of general taxation rather than members&#8217; contributions and fund investments.</p>
<p>I tend to think that the role of the ILP is to challenge the Left to confront difficult issues &#8211; so that it can be more radical and effective &#8211;  rather than to go along with the crowd. Perhaps inevitably the unions will pursue narrow sectional interests, but socialists should be broadening their horizons and calling for sweeping reforms to the whole pensions system.</p>
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		<title>Comment on History by Strongholds of the ILP - ILP</title>
		<link>http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/history/comment-page-1/#comment-1908</link>
		<dc:creator>Strongholds of the ILP - ILP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2011 13:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentlabour.org.uk/main/?page_id=14#comment-1908</guid>
		<description>[...] History [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] History [...]</p>
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